Phee, Phi, Pho, Phum™ … or how do you say Φ?
The generally accepted pronunciation of phi is fi, like fly.
Most people know phi as “fi,” to rhyme with fly, as its pronounced in “Phi Beta Kappa.” In Dan Brown’s best selling book “The Da Vinci Code,” however, phi is said to be pronounced fe, like fee.
The following is offered in response to the questions received on phi’s correct pronunciation:
Dictionairies either list fi as the only pronunciation for phi or, if both fi and fe are listed, as the primary pronunciation. See listings at Merriam-Webster and Dictionary.com.
Leading authors on the subject of phi offered the following comments:
- Two in the USA and UK confirmed that fi is the preferred pronunciation.
- One noted that in the UK “phi” was always pronounced to rhyme with “pie” but that some Americans at conferences pronounced it “fee”.
- Another noted that in Greek the letter PHI is indeed pronounced PHEE. However, in Greek the letter we call PI is also pronounced PEE. Consequently, depending on whether you want to adopt the Greek or American pronunciation you can pronounce it as PHEE or PHI. In mathematical circles, the letter used for the Golden Ratio is normally TAU.
To complicate matters, when used in connection with fraternities and sororities, the usage varies as well and it is pronounced PHEE when it comes after a vowel, as in Alpha Phi.
My Greek phriend Tassos Spiliotopoulos offers the following: The letters of the Greek alphabet are written as words and not as single letters, for example the first letter A is written AΛΦA and sounds like Alpha. When it comes to letters like Π, Χ, Φ (written ΠI, ΧI and ΦI respectively), the misunderstanding comes from the pronunciation of the letter ‘I’ which in English rhymes with fly but in Greek is pronounced EE. The letter Φ is always pronounced PHEE in Greek, and it does not differ if followed by a vowel or a consonant.
So there you have it. While a linguistic purist might opt for the original Greek fee, most mathematicians know phi as fi. Either is correct, but if we want to be consistent with the common usage of pronouncing pi as pie, we would then pronounce phi as fi.
Or as the lyrics of the song say, “PotAto, potAHto, tomAto, tomAHto, let’s call the whole thing off.”
Many thanks to Dr. Mario Livio (author of The Golden Ratio), Dr. Ron Knott (author of Fibonacci Numbers and the Golden Section), Steve McIntosh (author of The Golden Mean and President of Now & Zen) and Dr. Eddy Levin (inventor of the Golden Mean Gauge) for their input, and to Geni Flowers for inspiring me to get the answer.
Interesting information, but please don’t use “The Da Vinci Code” in anything resembling an academic discussion. Dan Brown is NOT a viable source reference. It is a fiction novel written for entertainment only, and is a historical and scientific farce. The use of it in an academic topic lowers the credibility of the topic.
except…he’s not using the da vinci code as a source. he’s using it to introduce the topic. it’s basic paper writing–use something personal, modern, or a piece of pop culture to get the reader’s attention, and then shift into the bulk of your paper. you’ll notice he doesn’t bring the book up again after the first paragraph, where it’s used to explain why people are currently questioning the pronunciation of ‘phi’.
Wonderful! Thanks!
Seeing as it is a Greek letter, I think it would be nice if people would pronounce the letter “pee” as it is supposed to be pronounced. While I am at it, Beta is really pronounced “vita” and delta is really pronounced “thelta”. Tau is actually “taaf” and gamma is something like “chyamma”.
Good thought, but there are variants and regional differences in any language, especially across languages, and that does not make one any less valid than another. Ask an English person and French person to say “Paris,” or an English person and an American to say “schedule.” The words are “supposed” to be pronounced in a way that is commonly accepted and understood by the group who is speaking them.
You are mixing Ancient and Modern Greek. Those are really to distinct languages.
The pronunciation like “fee” is Koine Greek and later. In classical Attic it was pronounced like “pee”. The classical pronunciations of the letters Pi and Beta would (word initially) probably both be perceived as a /b/ by English speakers; Pi with little and Beta with strong voicing, i.e. with Pi, the voice sets in about the same time as the plosive release and with Beta voicing started very noticeably before the plosive release (Bbbbbbeta). Classical Greek distinguished three and not just two series of plosives, not only /p/-/b/, /t/-/d/, /g/-/k/ as English does but three /b/-/p/-/ph/, etc. Modern European languages don’t have this any more. In Greek there was a gradual shift from /b/ to /v/ (with the sound of the Spanish “b” as an intermediary step) and of from /ph/ to /f/ (also with an intermediary step). This shift was complete in the Byzantine era (early middle ages).
As to the vowel of “Phi”, that has never been anything else that the modern vowel of English “fee”. The pronunciation like “pie” is a development purely within English: 500 years ago, the word “pie” was pronounced like modern “pee” but then in long process the English “long i” shifted to the diphthong it is today and the “long e” became pronounced like the “long i” used to be 500 years ago but this change was never reflected in spelling. Hence the confusion.
*two distinct languages
Why is “phi r not square, phi r round” funny?
Only if you pronounce it “pie”.
I’m very surprised what is considered typical in mathematical circles for this pronunciation. Between two US colleges, all of my math and physics professors pronounced it FEE. I’ve never met a frat boy who didn’t pronunce it FI.
Same here. ALL my professors said “phee.”
I think the common usage varies by groups. Those in mathematics generally say phee while those in the cosmetic enhancement and design areas most often say phi. It’s a bit like different pronunciations of schedule, with the American skej-ool vs the British shed-yool. People within the same group will become accustomed to using the same pronunciation. Neither is right or wrong. As they say, when in Rome, do as the Romans do.
I learned to pronounce Φ as FEE throughout prep. school, from both calculus and AP physics (AKA ” Φ sucks “) – when I got to an Ivy League College in 1973 and vocalized Φ as FEE I was almost laughed off the campus – provincialism?
How do you describe the ignoramuses who don’t know how to pronounce eyegnoramus?
Yes. In mathematics always pronounced Fee.
Back in the day when I was studying Ancient Greek we all pronounced it PEE and PHEE.
I guess you just have to decide if you want to sound like a Ancient Greek Scholar or and American.
A common wisdom is “When in Rome, do as the Romans do.” There are many words in English which are derived from other languages that now have alternate pronunciations. Proper English means using them the way they’re used in common, modern English rather than in other places or times.
Tedd, you lose credibility with your argument. It should be an Ancient Greek and an American. Since you lack basic grammar skills or are poor at proofreading, what trust do we put in you? All is forgiven, though, if you are an ancient Greek!
Who cares how it’s pronounced? The topic is fascinating as well as the content and then at the bottom of the page this is what you get! Show a little respect for the love of God!
Yo Bro, point well taken. It takes a moment to pull the head out of the potty. It’s not unusual for pedantics to assume a distinguished form. However, to avoid utilitarian confusion, it would be well to teach the common usage as well, in passing.
You can sell your phi (as in pie) at a high phi (as in fee) if you know how. Golden Ratio works with words and sounds, I guess.
Ummm… It takes a little longer for some… However, I’m going with the assumption (as, apparently, did the editor) that you did not intend it in that manner. You see, along with two pronunciations of phi, there are two directions in which a spiral may be constructed therefrom, sort of like with swastikas. One is a death spiral, and one is a resurrection spiral. So, for Christ’s sake, take care in how you build. True metaphysics cannot be separated from physics. The regeneration begins thus. 1)The common salvation by grace through faith alone 2) The salvation from God’s wrath 3)The salvation of the soul 4)The rock of my salvation. All grace is given, up to #3, that is the resurrection of the spirit body, which is the first resurrection, which is the second birth. Thereafter abide within the three diminishing measures of grace. Otherwise, your soul may be in mortis extremis, subject to the second death. Be blessed.
This, er… urges me to say that you’ve uncovered the relation of the divine proportion/golden rectangle to the Chief Cornerstone (which is of course double the cubic volume). Four salvations, and four graces, that makes two of the four base cornerstones, the four-square. Further, this Bra-seer has certainly uplifted the bride of Christ! Not only has the faith/works controversy been resolved,but the circle (pie-hole) has been squared! Don’t worry too much if you don’t get it yet, you have plenty of company. After all, consider this, “a sound … as of [the moaning of a spirit)… wind… filled the whole… where they were sitting” (Acts2:2). Holy is the Spirit. Agape’, my immortal beloved, my virgin madonna, my Theresa of A’vila. Be well.
If it is true that Mark Barr gave the name Phi to the ratio in honour of the Greek sculptor Phidias, then it should be pronounced Phee, surely?
Good thought. I don’t know that we can ever be sure in saying one pronunciation is right or wrong. Barr’s selection was based on the use of the letter Phi for reasons other than its pronunciation, and not the specific pronunciation that was common to his profession or geographic location. Americans and Brits say the word “schedule” differently, but it’s not who used it first that determines proper and acceptable usage. It’s which circles you use it in. Barr created this definition in about 1910-1915 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AMark_Barr) so the usage at that time might not be the same as today, and would not necessarily dictate proper usage today either.
I was told by a member of a fraternity(Pi Kappa Phi) that fraternities pronounced it fi, but sororities pronounced it fee. Might just be a local thing too
Could be a local thing. I knew some young women in Alpha Phi sorority when I was in college and they always pronounced it Fi, not Fee.