Is there a Golden Ratio point of the Earth?
It has been claimed that the Golden Ratio of the Earth is in Mecca. (See archived website or the 2009 video “Holy Mysteries” by Erdem Cetinkaya on Vimeo or YouTube. See also his updated 2023 “Holy Mysteries” video with English subtitles and related article on Kaaba and Arafat. Is this true?
Latitude
January 6, 2021: When I wrote this article in March 2010, I wrote the following on Mecca’s latitude:
Let’s first look at latitudes. Phi to 15 places is 1.6180339887499. There are 180 degrees between the North Pole and the South Pole, so 180 divided by Phi is 111.246…. As latitudes are expressed in degrees and distance from the Equator, we subtract 90 degrees and convert this to a latitude of 21.246… degrees, or 21 degrees, 14 minutes and 46.02 seconds, North or South.
The latitude of Mecca, according to Google Earth, is 21 degrees, 25 minutes and 38.56 seconds. This puts it only 10 minutes and 52.54 seconds north of the exact northern golden ratio latitude of the Earth. This is a variance of less about 1/10 of a percent, about 12 miles or 20 kilometers north of the exact golden ratio latitude point.
Update January 6, 2021: With comments provided by site visitors, I am providing this updated information on Mecca’s latitude:
The city of Mecca, however is over 20 kilometers from its northern border to its southern border. As noted above, the exact golden ratio point is 111.246…, or 21.246… degrees from the equator. The latitude of Mecca’s northern most border is 21.592 degrees, and the latitude of Mecca’s southern-most border is 21.278 degrees. That means that the exact golden ratio based on latitudes between the north and south poles still falls just barely south of the city limits of Mecca.
Site visitors did alternate measures based on the miles shown by Google Earth from the North Pole to Mecca to the South Pole, submitting that the golden ratio point falls within the boundaries of Islam’s holy city. They found the North-South distance to be 19980 kilometers, and divided by 1.618034 to arrive at a distance of 7,631.68, which they said was within Mecca’s city limits.
In corroborating this, I found the North-South distance on Google Earth to be 20003.89 kilometers, with a golden ratio point at 7,640.81 from the North Pole. I also found the Mecca’s northern-most border to be at 7,610.91 from the North Pole and its southern most border to be at 7,645.66 kilometers from the North Pole. This approach would then place the golden ratio point of the Earth pole’s within the city limits of Mecca.
It became clear in this process that measures of the Earth’s surface are done by various methods, with factors that make them subject to some variability.
Site visitors also noted that the latitude coordinates of Kaaba is 21 degrees and 25 minutes, and that the first time the word “Kaaba” appears in the Quran is 2:125. Additionally, the first verse in the Quran that has the word “Makkah” (Mecca) is exactly proportioned according to the golden mean. The word “Bakkah”, has a ratio of 1.618, when the letters of this verse are counted and divided by 1.618. (47/1.618=29; there are 29 letters from the beginning of this verse till the word Makkah). Lastly, the dimensions of Kaaba also embody the golden ratio, with its 21.2 meter length by 13.1 meter width (taking the original Hatim region into account), and 21.2/13.1= 1.618.
So as to the claim, the golden ratio point of the Earth between the North and South poles does indeed fall within the city limits of Mecca based on the mileage distances shown by Google Earth, and there are interesting references to Kaaba and Mecca in the Quran that relate to its latitude and to the golden ratio.
Longitude
Latitudes have a clear reference point of origin that is determined by the poles defined by the Earth’s axis of rotation. Selecting the origin point of the longitudes is not as clear as there is no single definitive reference point. Those who claim Mecca as the Golden Ratio of point of the Earth’s longitudes base this on a Mercator projection of the Earth, to which a Golden Section has been overlaid using the PhiMatrix software available from this site:
One could start from any longitude to get to any location, but using a world projection is a reasonable approach. The challenge though is that there are hundreds of different renditions of world projections that vary considerably. Here’s an example of others that produce similar results:
The top image is the familiar Mercator projection. The bottom image is a Peters projection which eliminates the bias of the Mercator to highlight the Northern hemisphere.
Rather than use an image subject to interpretation to determine the golden ratio of the latitude, perhaps it is better to use actual longitude measurements.
If you accept the premise that a world projection map that divides East and West is the right foundation, the most accurate starting longitudinal reference point would then be the midpoint between Alaska and Russia at 168 degrees, 52 minutes and 42 seconds found in the satellite photo below. Using this as a starting point, the Golden Ratio point falls at 31 degrees, 22 minutes and 16.05 seconds, which is 938 km to the west of Mecca, which according to Google Earth is at 39 degrees, 48 minutes and 53.42 second East. If we use mankind’s own Meridian at 180 degrees as the origin point, the Golden Ratio point is at 42 degrees, 29 minutes and 32.05 seconds, which is 298 km to the east of Mecca.
The image below shows the midpoint between Alaska and Russia.
The image below shows the resulting Golden Ratio points of longitude from the midpoint at left and also from the 180 degree meridian. Click on either image to enlarge it.
An alternate way to approach this is to start at the longitude of Mecca and move a Golden Ratio of 360 degrees away (222 degrees, 29 minutes and 32.05 seconds) to see where you land. This point is at 117 degrees, 19 minutes and 21.37 seconds West, which is inside the border of Russia as shown below. Click on the image to enlarge.
Is Mecca at the Golden Ratio point of the Earth? The answer is subject to interpretation. As one who believes in God though, the author says this:
If God exists (and I have unwavering faith He does) and wanted to make His existence known with absolute certainty He could do so in many ways. The God I have come to know though Jesus Christ gives us a choice to accept Him, out of His love for us. He gives us all the signs and evidence we need to sense His love and presence but always leaves enough margin for doubt so that we come to Him out of our own choice of faith and love, and not because there is no other alternative but to do so. He loves us, and desires our love, but true love requires true choice. He speaks to us in many ways, yet sometimes we decide to not grasp or accept the message, as noted in these scripture passages:
“The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.” Psalms 19:1-4
“Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’ But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.” Words of Jesus Christ in Matthew 13:13-16
So whether it be seeing phi in the beauty of the human form or the location of one’s holy place, may our eyes, ears, heart and mind be open to the message of our Creator and God. Wherever the golden ratio point of the Earth may lie, these passages point to a deeper meaning yet in finding the place where our God would lead us to worship Him:
“Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.” Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.” The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.” Then Jesus declared, “I who speak to you am he.” John 4:19-26
Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is within you.” Luke 17:20-21
References:
HolyMysteries.com archived website (The site is no longer active.)
Matt says
This is just one of the thousands of miracles of Islam and of the Quran. The fact that the golden mean point is the centre for Muslim prayer for over a thousand years, is an evidence in itself. Unlike other religions, Islam is an evidence based religion, which means its not based on emotion but on proofs and evidences. There are thousands of miracles in the Quran, the final revelation from The Creator. There are descriptions of embryology, mountain structure, cloud formation, barriers between seas and oceans, etc. all in this one book that was revealed over 1400 years ago, where modern science is just confirming these truths.
Gary Meisner says
The Quran does indeed describe a number of rather amazing scientific facts that were more advanced than the knowledge at the time of its writing. The Bible does too though. The practices for disease control described in Leviticus, which was written 3,500 years ago, were unknown scientifically and ignored until 1845. Then a young doctor named Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis fought the ridicule of his peers in postulating that death rate of up to 30% of women who gave birth in hospitals could be virtually eliminated by having doctors simply wash their hands in “running water” before seeing them. Now it is a common health practice, but this was described in Leviticus 15:13. More important than that though, do not the gospel accounts of the life of Jesus Christ offer more miracles and evidence of God’s presence and revelation than the knowledge of scientific facts? Jesus said in Luke 16:31, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ All who seek spiritual knowledge and truth should read and study the scriptures of other religions to know what is unique to each, and pray for God’s grace and wisdom in discerning the truths that He wants us to know.
If you believe Bible. Prophet muhammad is true & Qur’an is true
check this out
http://sunnahonline.com/library/the-call-of-islam/483-bible-verses-about-the-prophet-muhammad
john 14 16 ,”… and he shall give you another Comforter” , i just read what christian scholars said about that verse , their comment was that that verse is about the holy spirit , do you believe that , Jesus, a GOD, is praying to father (GOD) to send a another GOD (holy spirit), eudhu bilah.
Christian belief is that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are different manifestations of ONE God, not three separate gods. This Triune nature, or Trinity, is seen all throughout creation, in matter (solid, liquid, gas), time (past, present, future), light (the red, green and blue cones of the retina that sense all light), space (in three dimenions), atoms (proton, neutron, electron), human life (mind, body, soul) and more. Three different natures of the same entity does not mean that the entity is three separate things. Water is water, but manifests itself differently as ice, water and steam. Each has its own very unique qualities, but they are are water.
The Holy Spirit is the part of God that abides within the human soul, that creates the personal connection and personal relationship with each of us. Have you ever heard the whisper of conscience or wisdom in your thoughts that you know could not have come from your own human understanding? Have you noticed that this voice often speaks to you as another person, i.e., saying “you” should do this rather than “I” should do this? This can be the voice of the Counselor, the Holy Spirit of God speaking to you, the same One who spoke to the prophets.
Hint: read the next two verses
Excellent point, Michael, and an important example of how important it is to read scripture in its entirety to understand its context and true meaning.
The verse being used as a reference to Mohammed is John 14:16-17a: “And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever — the Spirit of truth.”
Yet John 17b-18 continues: “The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.”
Does the Quran say that Muhammed lives with you and will be in you? And could he not be seen when he was alive? Does it make more sense that this is a reference to the Spirit of God that abides within the born again believer? And in this context what does Jesus mean when he says “I will come to you”?
I found the link for u, specially. Just watch this video and u get to know a lot about Qur’an and Bible. Both are scholars of gigantic stature in their fields and debate is very logical, precise and to the point. I’ll wait for your comments after u watch at least half of the debate. Regards.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=campbell+zakir+naik
Muslims believe in past scriptures and past prophets. Only religion to honor and glorify Jesus other than Christianity is Islam.
Read the Quran for yourself to know what it says about Jesus. Read the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John for yourself to know what Jesus said about himself. There are some very critical inconsistencies. Jesus said things that no prophet before or after him said. If Jesus lied or was self-deceived in his statements about being One with God, the Son of God, why does Islam honor and glorify him?
Hi all, great discussion we got goin(as expected from phi-ers), I suspect I’m late.
Mr Meisner and some others(sorry scrolling around now would be troublesome) I’m pleased to read such knowledge of the Quran from non Muslims :).
I agree the Bible should also have great truths unknown to man of that time since it is also the word of God. The Quran acknowledges all prophets(also mentions there were 124,000 of them) and tells us to make no distinctions between them. Allah also tells us of holy books namely Torah and Evangeal(the Bible). Not only this but Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) had told his people that every prophet has told of his coming. This is almost proven, in the case of prophet Isa(Jesus) not only in the John 14(there are almost sound arguments against it depending on your axioms), there are many references: http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/muhammad_bible.htm
Also there was a manuscript of st Barnabas found in turkey, still there is doubt if it was his or his disciple’s which inshallah will soon be cleared up on scientific analysis(I believe it’s called carbon dating).
So Gary Meisner and all of you nice people please open your hearts to Islam, through all the propaganda, and you will find unfaltering truth. I have a certain affinity for knowledge seeker folks like you lot(living in these ignorance prevailent times) and hope you come closer to Allah and true success. I found Islam through analysis of the world’s systems of governance but the Quran is the universal truth and guidance for all man kind.
Asalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh (May the peace, mercy, and blessings of Allah be with you) all.
Thank you for your kind comments shared from a heart that loves and respects others. I speak as a Christian, one who didn’t come to faith in God until my late 30’s, and who after studying the Bible went on to read the Quran and many other scriptural writings from other religions.
I think if we’re all completely honest, we have to admit that our beliefs are based in faith, not with certainty that one view is provable to be 100% accurate. For reasons that perhaps only our God knows, there are inconsistencies between the Bible, The Quran and other scriptures, and each contains texts within itself that can be questioned or critiqued. If God wanted our belief to be based in 100% fact and certainty rather than in letting faith overcoming doubt He could do so in many ways.
God reveals Himself to the seeking heart, whatever it is that leads us to thirst to go deeper. My prayers and studies have led me to the truth of Christ’s teachings, and this has drawn me into a relationship with God and has changed me for the better. I do not doubt that the Quran has drawn you closer to our God as well. The common theme we should all understand and embrace is that we are to love God and love others, and not judge or hurt them. The more we understand the experiences and beliefs of others, the better we will all be, and the more we will understand about our God. I have studied the Quran. Have you also studied the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the Bible?
Greetings everyone, please understand Islam did not start with the prophet Mohammed. It started with the first human Adam and every prophet sent by God to guide humanity back to Islam.. Which is the worship of the One True Creator.Unfortunately, mankind has become experts in deception and twisting facts to match their own interests and worldly greed, so many drifted away from Islam by changing the holy books( e.g. Torah and Bible…)… Thus God sent the prophet mohammed with the Quran, to guide humanity back to islam
Would it not be more accurate to say that God wants to guide humanity back to a relationship with Himself rather than to religion? In the Torah, the Ten Commandments in Exodus define man’s relationship to God and to one another. In the Bible, Jesus says that the greatest commandment is to ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” People of all faiths can drift from these truths but it’s quite simple in concept in both the Torah and the Bible.
The Kaaba was built by Abraham n his son Ishmael ordained by God in the exact location it is.
Mr Meissner I am really impressed with the decency n humility of your comments sir. I would just like to add having read john n mark that Christ mentions in both of them that my laws will be lost n forgotten n then shall come the advocate n he shall put the laws in place once again. Now prey tell me who stopped idol worshipping,usury,pork eating,adultery, gambling n kosher once again.
Thank you for your faith, kindness and openness to the Gospels. The word Advocate (paraklētos) can be best understood in the context of the entire Gospels. In all four instances of its use, Jesus refers to the Advocate and the Spirit (pneuma) together, as one in the same (John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26 and 16:13). He uses the same word Spirit when saying you must be born again of the Spirit (John 3:3-8). This is the Spirit that those who believe in him received after his death (John 7:39). He bestowed this Holy Spirit upon His disciples then (John 20:22, Acts 1:5, Acts 2:4), and has ever since. It is this Holy Spirit that abides within the willing human soul that is being described here. This Spirit convicts us of our sin (John 16:8) and speaks the truth of God to us among our innermost thoughts (John 16:13). There is a new and higher commandment yet given by Jesus than outward behaviors of obedience, and that is to be born again of God’s spirit and to love one another as we love God. (Mark 12:28-31, John 13:34-35).
Hello,
please see this another mathemtical miracle:
http://www.amazing19.com/
Gary Meisner – you are absolutely right…the Bible gives more evidences than quran..
What is the matter of dispute. Muslims believe in all prophets and holy books descended by ALLAH Almighty (GOD), It is mentioned that we should accept all prophets and holy books to be the follower of Islam and we belief on jesus, moses, adam and all prophets. If you read Quran, you will came to know that it’s the chain of guidance that started from Adam and ends at Muhammad. The main message is the same ‘Oneness of GOD’. Evidence of GOD is present everywhere and HE is reminding all of us again and again about the truth. Please read english translation of the verse:
“Have they not travelled in the land, and have they hearts wherewith to feel and ears wherewith to hear? For indeed it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts, which are within the bosoms, that grow blind.” This verse of The Holy Quran (Surah al-Haj, 22:46).
Isn’t it the same message mentioned in Words of Jesus Christ in Matthew 13:13-16.
ALLAH is everywhere and the concept of religion is present in every being. And for the guidance of humans, divine books and prophets were sent in different eras, Message is simple and same. Although people fabricated many things as time passed.
I must suggest everyone to explore the nature, gather information, read Quran and observe the synchronicity in the universe……you will find your inner-self, you will find who you are and you will find your creator 🙂
There is indeed a Oneness of God, and those who seek Him will find Him, to quote from Jesus in Matthew 7:7. It would be wonderful if what you said about the chain of guidance was as simple as you suggest, but it isn’t. Jesus did things and said things about himself that are unlike any other prophet, and that set him apart from the prophets. As examples:
In John 14:6-7 Jesus said “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well.”
John 4:25-26 records Jesus claiming to be the Messiah, the Christ, the Anointed One of God: “The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us. Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”
John 10:24-30 also records Jesus claiming to be not just a prophet but the Messiah, the Christ, God’s Anointed One, in this passage:
“The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.” Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
Matthew 17:22-23 records Jesus predicting his own crucifixion and resurrection, saying, “The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men. They will kill him, and on the third day he will be raised to life.”
There are many instances throughout the Gospels of Jesus claiming to be the Messiah, to be one with God, even accepting worship from others. This is not the same Jesus described in the Quran. Non-believers who have tried to prove the gospel accounts of Jesus’ resurrection to be false have become believers when they truly understood the account presented. C.S. Lewis was an atheist and writer who investigated the gospels to discredit them. In the process he became one of the greatest Christian writers of modern times, and came to the conclusion that we have to see Jesus as either a liar, a lunatic or Lord. This means that he either [1] deceived mankind by conscious fraud, or [2] He was Himself deluded and self-deceived, or [3] He was Divine. In his words,
“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”
In the Old Testament, which is accepted by Jews, Christians and Muslims alike, the prophets spoke of the coming of a Messiah. The gospels document many events in the life of Jesus that fulfill those prophecies. Was Jesus a prophet, or was He the Messiah? If Messiah, how do then we respond to him?
God is one, the message is the same throughout the ages, worship the one God and follow the prophet of the time.
Fabricating a totally different scenario is exactly why the current Christianity is wrong. The hundred bibles contradicting one another written by men with a scenario similar to paganism and gods having children is exactly why Islam is the true unadulterated religion that everyone must follow.
If we want to know the truth, we must be truthful in what we say, seek all the knowledge and evidence that is available, pray for God’s wisdom and have open hearts and minds in understanding it.
There is no “fabrication” of a different scenario. Jews, Christians and Muslims all have the Tanakh (aka Jewish Bible or Christian Old Testament) as a foundation to their faith. These books tell of a Messiah, the Anointed One of God, who was to come. This is not the same pagan gods having children. Some scholars believe there are more than 300 prophecies about Jesus in the Old Testament. These prophecies are specific enough that the mathematical probability of Jesus fulfilling even a handful of them, let alone all of them, is “staggeringly improbable, if not impossible.” To avoid a Christian-only view of this, here is a list of Messianic prophecies and their fulfillment in Jesus from the Jews for Jesus site:
https://jewsforjesus.org/answers/top-40-most-helpful-messianic-prophecies/
Here’s one passage that is often referenced:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+52%3A13-53%3A12&version=NIV
There are also not a “hundred bibles contradicting one another.” The “hundred bibles” you speak of are all translated from the very same original source scriptures in Hebrew and Greek, with the goal of providing the most accurate and meaningful interpretation of God’s word to God’s children in all languages for all eras of time. There is much history, prophecy and instruction in these books, but the core of God’s commands are simple and understandable by all. See the ten commandments in Exodus 20. Jesus summarized it all with this simple statement:in Matthew 37:40:
“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
There is NO contradiction in the meaning of that passage, or of the Ten Commandments.
All scripture, the Quran included, is subject to interpretation, which is why people discuss and debate it, and why there are sects in Islam, just as there are in Judaism, and denominations in Christianity. And the Quran too is not “unadulterated” in the way many Muslims believe. Research its history for yourself. Here is just one page on this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Quran
It says that the Quran as it is known in the present, was first compiled into book format years after the death of Muhammed. The message of the Muhammed was first carried in an oral tradition by those who memorized it, and 700 of those were killed in the Battle of Yamama with another self-proclaimed prophet. What now exists as the Quran was compiled, by a committee of four men, from many people and sources into one accepted copy, and all other copies which varied were destroyed by mandate.
We must be careful and truthful in what we say about the word that God has given to us in the revelations to the prophets and words of His Messiah. Lack of knowledge and bias without understanding will never get us to God’s truth for all mankind.
Whatever ur faith is up for you to decide. But im happy that we have the same belief that there is only One God and peace acquired by submitting our will to Almighty God no else.
Indeed Bible and Torait are holy books of God the almighty ,we muslims believe and it’s the condition precedent for a muslim to remain a muslim to have firm belief on all the books reveled earlier and prophets
The site of the Kabba in Mecca was for centuries a pagan place of worship. Is that what the ratio points out? Remember, the ratio of phi also perfectly discribes a pentagram. Food for thought.
I’m what I call a lowercase c catholic, which means ‘universal’. I believe there are universal truths embedded in every faith, and I believe that you are on the right track with the kaaba. It is the properly deduced phi point or omphalus ‘navel’ of the earth, Rock reverence has been around longer than any faith, and as you stated, the kaaba was a holy place for all faiths until Mohammed did his ‘turning over the tables of the money changers’ re-creation, effectively allowing only a certain group of Semites to use the ‘ball’ that belongs to the world. I wonder what factor of phi would quantify how much better the world would be if the black rock was thrown off the end of the earth like a bottle of Coke dropped amongst an indigenous tribe. (The Gods Must Be Crazy) This could be accomplished nowadays with a drone and a low-yield device to contaminate the area for longer than the world religions have been around. Or for at least as long as it takes to re-sculpt and appropriately weather all of the Bamiyan Buddhas. Or maybe just allow the rest of the world to get back in the game. While we’re on the subject, Ptah was the protector god of Memphis and sculptures, and stone/copper in general. Take another look at all the mountains and bodies of water in the general region that have ‘pt’ or ‘ph’ in them. Old linguistics stuff. And finally, while we’re on the subject, and since the medium is the message, has anyone run the numbers on the 618th day of this new century? B”^ (
What Kielykd points out is reasonable. Phi was originally discovered by Pagan Greeks and used by many Pagan cultures in the architecture of Pagan temples – of which the Kaaba was originally one – for centuries before the coming of Islam. It’s association with measurements found in living things was used to bring “life” to Pagan sacred art adorning the walls of temples and to the measurements of statues of the Gods. That it later became associated with the sacred city of Islam is just more evidence of the continuation of Divine principles through ALL religions – not just the Abrahamic ones.
Even if the number was discovered by pagan greeks, or used by other pagans in their art, this means nothing except that they were interested in mathematics. Paganism is not divine. But the Kaaba and Islam are. The Kaaba was built by ADAM the prophet, the first human, and all real prophets including Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Noah and Mohammad all called for worshiping the creator, the only GOD, each with a set of rules to suit the time they were sent. Thus islam was not invented by Mohammad, it is the religion of all real prophets since there is only one God, thus one accepted set of principles throughout history. Polytheism is not acceptable.
The Kaaba was built by Abraham and his son Ishmael ordained by God in the exact location it is.
Dear all, I would start by thanking you for this discussion, it is simply a fresh breeze to see people cross belief talkinging with such open
mindness. I believe it only make sense that all religions are intertwined and sequencially produced, they must all point to the truth of things, their molecules or numbers or it’s someone’s imagination. The Quran truly offers of wealth of scientific knowledge that has over the years maybe for the limited scientific knowledge at the time been overlooked. perhaps a modern scientific committee should come together for a reading, look at things from a different perspective to classical historical accounts and meaning translations.
Well Said Bro … !! I agree & Iam Muslim Allahamdulliah 🙂
Please re-read the link, there is no ‘miracle’. Mecca is located about 10 miles off of the Golden Ratio. There are places in the world closer to the ‘Golden Ratio’ of Earth then Mecca. Islam is not an evidence based-religion, it is a religion that twists the truth of Jesus Christ, who is beyond what you call a prophet.
Jesus came and claimed to be the divine Lord of the world. Muhammad, who lived hundreds of years later, twisted this and made Him to be a prophet. If Satan were to come, he would do his greatest to try to divert away your attention from God.
AMAZING FACT:
You did not mention which place then it is. If it is not Mecca, where is it? As you did not mention, then I will tell everyone:
This city is the city of Medina! This where prophet Muhammad (pbuh) lived and this is where he is buried. This the second holiest place of Islam.
MECCA IS IN THE PHI POINT:
Mecca falls in the phi or golden ratio point ONLY if we measure in latitudes. The author of this page has measured in all aspects, including latitudes and longitudes together. If we only use the phi matrix program horizontally, or in terms of latitudes only, and apply it on the latest GPS map, then it is only the city of Mecca.
Golden ratio number :1.618 miracle:
The phi number is quite long -1.618033…
But the initial part is the main number of the golden ratio,and it appears in nature a lot of times,
Which is 1.618.
Now, if we measure the distance of Mecca to the south pole,(1234832 km) and the distance of Mecca to the north pole,(763168 km ), the ratio gives us exactly the number 1.618!! :
1234832/763168=1.618…
Furthermore, the ratio of the distance of the city of Mecca to the south pole, and the total distance between the two poles is again 1.618.
19983000/1234832=1.618…
Furthermore, there is only one verse in the entire Quran which has the word MECCA.
This verse has 47 letters. When we apply the golden ratio of 1.618, then we see that it shows the word MECCA:
47/1.618=29.0
From the beginning of the verse, until the word MECCA, there are a total of 29 letters.!! Just like the as it is seen on the Earth.
If there was one extra or missing letter, this ratio could have been never materialized. As 48/1.618=29.6 and 46/1.618=28.4.
This shows us that the Creator, who has created the universe, is the Owner of the Quran and it is He who has positioned the Holy City of Mecca.
The verses of the Quran are written horizontally, unlike Japanese, which is written vertically. This is why we see that the phi point of the Earth falls in the city of Mecca only if we measure in latitudes or in other words, horizontally. This also shows the relation between the Quran and Mecca.
But if we measure in all aspects,
Then the phi point of the Earth, as the author of this page measured, will fall on the city of Holy city of Medina, where Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) has lived and where he is buried.
I have a comment which is meant to be more of a general observation rather than anything specific to any one viewpoint here. I will preface my remarks by stating that I am a believer in God but I do not adhere to any particular religion, rather I try to treat everyone as I would wish to be treated. It is that simple, for me. If you are just as helpful to folks as you can be I think that is a pretty good end.
I must say one thing I have noticed here is that in discussing things among yourselves here you are very careful to flatter each other with respect to each’s beliefs. That should happen without saying and one should not feel obligated to speak in the same terms as one would use to walk upon eggshells, as a measure of trust in the decency of whoever they are conversing with.
This is merely an observation and not a criticism as this is the first time I have ever happened up this site. That’s all I got folks and whatever it takes to keep y’all talking I reckon it’s good but it seems as though it is a bit strained.
Well listen, you all have a good day and thanks for letting contribute my two cents here. I appreciate it.
God has no religion.
Your point?? Religion by definition is the belief in divine power, so why does he need too?
God gives religion to people, religion is obeying the God.
Does one need ‘such’ things to follow a religion?
Does the Qur’an mention that Golden Mean of Earth is the Makkah?
If Yes, then you have to prove it to be right to say that Qur’an is the Word of God.
If No, then there is no point in trying to prove or disprove ‘such’ things.
I believe NO is the answer.
That the word ‘Mecca’ is at the golden ratio point of verse 3.96.
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/islam/926884-b-1-618-golden-mean-ratio.html#ixzz2IzwsfrEg
God says most important shrine in Mecca/Becca that does not mean it should have some geographical golden point
http://www.bubblews.com/news/333542-makkah-is-earth-city-centre
“Thus We have revealed to the Holy Qur’an in Arabic so that you may warn the Ummul Qura (Makkah) and population (countries) around it .. ‘(ash-Shura: 7)
The word ‘Ummul Qura’ means mother for other cities and towns around showing Makkah is the center for other cities, and the other is just being around him.
As a mother is the source of descent, it is also a source of Mecca to all the other countries, as explained earlier in this study.
As far as I know, the Qur’an has got many verses speaking about Science. Many are proven to be correct.
Some are ambiguous, I heard. Try to prove those ambiguous things to be true. Then the claim would be credible.
Sir, very respectfully, I’ll say that ” Can u point a single verse in Qur’an PROVEN to be wrong?”. If a verse has not been proven yet, that speaks of inability of science. Considering anything to be wrong just because it is not proven yet, is not the right approach, probably.
Bible also gives a few scientific facts. Some are right and some are proven to be wrong. Miraculously, Qur’an only confirms the right ones and either doesn’t speak about the wrong ones or clearly denies it.
It’s always advisable to get the opinion of expert in the respective field instead of those who state a overheard fact or just make a guess out of nowhere. A classic instance of drawing the logical conclusion is in the great debate titled “Is Qur’an or Bible the word of God” between Dr. Williams Campell and Dr. Zakir Naik, the two of the greatest scholars of our time. It’s there on Peace TV Channel and may be in youtube also. Regards.
Everyone please note that there is only one version of Quran, preserved over 1400 years. No other book in history has one version existing and preserved for that long. And in the Quran, God challenges disbelievers to make a similar book or try to corrupt it. Enemies of Islam tried for more than 1400 years to change it, they couldn’t change even a single word. God promised to protect the Quran. Isn’t that enough evidence?
The Dead Sea Scrolls and other archaeological evidence from over 2,000 years ago also provide evidence that the modern day sources for the Bible in Hebrew and Greek have changed little as well. All of these are evidence for the veracity of scripture but our beliefs are still based on faith, not proofs.
Dead sea scroll and the bible have similar stories. I believe old and new testament were sent down by God but ultimately it was changed frequently which can be found through out the history. The bible you read was canonized in 312 A.D. in Nicea by the order of ex pagan kind Constantine. So there are verses from God and also many verses banned and many chapters taken from non divine sources e.g. Gospels, Letters of paul. but every letters of quran is preserved for the last 1500 years and it will be. Check out the miracle yourself and let me know what do you think.
http://submission.org/App1.html
“…but our beliefs are still based on faith, not proofs.”
Saying like that doesnt make what you believe is the “TRUTH”. Example let say a man is charged with murder u say “i just belief with faith he is innocent” ,but all proofs and evidence (fingerprints etc) shows he’s guilty. It doesnt make sense. But surely on this example (and other worldly issues) u and every rational people would certainly look for proofs and evidence with science etc. Why is it when searching for the ultimate truth, (godly, heaven or hell issues) just suddenly “based on faith”. This is a matter of life & death, which is THE MOST IMPORTANT issue to be concerned with than small world issues.. God gives us mind to think rational and find evidence and proof.
If you based religion on just “faith” than other religions also should be true.. Jews, Hindus, buddism, athiest etc surely they also have “faith with their beliefs.” So u cant tell them they are false, only u are true.They will say to you the same thing. So who is TRUE? The only way to search for truth is by proof and evidence. Simply “faith” doenst make thing become the ultimate TRUTH.
Peace
My comments points to evidence as a proof, so I agree that its important to seek evidence and use both reason and a scientific approach in coming to our conclusions wherever possible. Determining truth though is not always so simple. Court rooms are filled with cases every day between plaintiffs and defendants, each represented by opposing attorneys who try to use evidence and reason to “prove” the “truth” of their client’s claims. In some cases the decision for the judge/jury is clear and easy. In others their decision comes down to faith. Faith in the evidence provided. Faith in their knowledge and intution. Faith in the ability of science to provide reliable findings from the evidence. Faith in the honesty and competency of the witnesses. Faith in the justice system. The list goes on, and that is why judges/juries are hung or make incorrect rulings. That is my point. In the end, many verdicts and judgment of what is truth are based on faith, not proofs. We naturally seek evidence and reason to support the things we believe to be true, but it’s always possible that they’re not true. So we believe by faith.
Quran has been altered.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Quran
https://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22828.0
I personally found some other interesting facts in the Quran when I read it myself. Got amazed how many times god told something interesting or scientifically and always after that he says in this there will be signs for those who are wise. Some of them – from my point of view- :
1. God mentioning creating the animals some for benefit and some as our mounts: Horses, Sheep, etc. Later on when he refer to some of them what we use as “Mount” he says that there will be some other type of “Mounts” that will be in future.(Probably mentioning our cars)
2. Fingerprint: In one verse, god say that Prophet! The non believers will make fun to you about the resurrection day and they say how come after we die and our bodies vanishes he can resurrect us. Tell them of course we are able to resurrect them even we able to recreate their “Fingertip” (mentioning the tip of your thumbs or toes)
3. Evolution: In many verses god say indeed we create all the living from water! In other verse he say look at the animals, some of them running, some of the jumping and some crawling etc etc, Indeed there are signs for those who are wise.
There are many other things there which be interesting. these were a few which was interesting to me. Also I like that in these cases god always say there are sign for those who are wise. He does not say those who re my believers or followers, he tell them for those who are wise.
The greatest sentence that jesus said is “The kingdom of god is within you”. Period. No religion, no scriptures, no gods, no rituals nothing. He wants eveyone to reach the ultimate conciousness what he reached within himself… you call it nirvana, mukti enlightment, self-realization, god or whatever. The basis of whole indian culture is sprituality… not religion… be it kings or meager peasant.. their highest goal in life is to attain nirvana… to experience what jesus, mohamed, buddha, krishna experienced… all the holy scriptures is real only for them one who experienced it… if you strive and seek to experience… then you are spritual…. if you just want to belive or disbelive… you will just live as a islam,christ or hindu… and die without hitting the ultimate…
Unfortunately this is a very narrow and distorted view that completely misrepresents Jesus and what he said and taught.
No Gods? Jesus said “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment.” (Matthew 22:35-41) He taught us to pray, “Father in heaven, hallowed be Your name.” (Matthew 6:9)
No scriptures? Jesus in reference to the Old Testament scriptures said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.” (Matthew 5:17) He also said, “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God?” Mark 12:24
No rituals? Jesus presented himself for baptism (Matthew 3:13), had his disciples baptize new followers and introduced communion to his disciples, “And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.” (Luke 22:9).
Spiritual growth and enlightenment is a wonderful aspect of the human experience, but it is not found in rejecting God only to become your own god. God gives us that freedom and choice, but you will only get as far as your limited human abilities will take you instead of to the place your Creator intended you to be.
Before you argue, pray for each other, so that everyone will be saved by God himself.
Wow, nice discussion here! With respect to one another and with logical and testible claims:)
Nice to see that the world is not gone completely godless as i sometimes get the feeling living in the west.
You cant find God without a religion. He is far too complicated to grasp on your own!
Salaam from the netherlands
I love ISA (saw) i.e. JESUS and MOHAMMED…!
i don’t wanna fight about who’s wrong who’s not….
I WANT TO &%*##&^ LEARN.
put the scientific facts to the side for awhile and use reasoning….adam noah abraham moses authentic jesus and muhammad all were pure monotheists…..muslims will be in line behind these prophets on judgement day…christians unfortunately will be in line on that day behind paul and constantine roman paganists who pushed a tri-god
And unfortunately this reflects a very inaccurate understanding of Christianity. You need to understand what Jesus Christ said about God and Himself in the Gospels. Christianity would be nothing without Christ, and is not based solely on or dependent upon the writings of Paul or others who followed.
Ok, where specifically, in the Gospel does Jesus mention the Trinity? (If you find no such reference from his lips to a god residing in three persons — and you will not — then perhaps you will be moved to consider the following questions:)
How could Jesus possibly have omitted to mention something of such extraordinary importance? How could the authors of the four Gospels have made the same extraordinary omission? (For no direct reference to the Trinity appears in any chapter or verse of any of the four Gospels. It is a patching-on from a later era.)
(And here brothers and sisters, is the big question, the question that takes no small degree of courage to address honestly:) If redemption through the blood of Christ, that one member of the Trinity, is all that is necessary for salvation, how are we to explain the many, many occasions in the Gospel that Jesus details the necessity of submitting directly to the One God — without ever mentioning the role of his (Jesus) redeeming blood?
Brothers and sisters: Are these not extraordinary teachings? Are they not central to the ministry of Jesus? And must we not confront dozens of them in order to defend the Trinity and the notion of the sacrificial Christ?
Brothers and sisters — seek carefully out the words of the man we have for so long called the Lord, and remember his words to us: “Why do you say Lord, Lord, and not do what I say?” (Luke 6:46)
As to specific mentions of the Trinity, here are twelve verses from the lips of Jesus:
Matthew 12:32 and 28:19
Mark 3:29, and 13:11
Luke 11:13, 12:10, and 12:12
John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7 and 20:22
Jesus didn’t use the word Trinity, but these verses contain very specific references to a three-fold nature of God. This also doesn’t count at least fifty other references in the Gospels to the Holy Spirit by others.
He refers to the Counselor and the Holy Spirit as one in the same in, “But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.” (John 14:26) Note the clear references to three separate persons.
He describes the Holy Spirit of God uniting with the human soul in, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ (John 3:5-7)
He commands us to share this with others in, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” (Matthew 28:19)
The Gospels do not say that just one member of the Trinity is required for salvation, for the three ARE One. Jesus said in John 14:6, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me,” but also said, as above, “You must be born again (of the Spirit).
All are references to the three in one nature of God, the transcendent God whose nature is beyond our comprehension, Christ as the part of God who came to mankind with the message of His love, and the Holy Spirit as the part of God that can abide within us and connect us to Him.
Here’s another article that may help to explain the Trinity: http://www.snapshotsofgod.com/understanding-the-trinity/
Hi
My name is mohammad and i am muslem i just write my idea and never want to disturb you dear author my god is allah and he present in whole of universe in all time mecca is symbol of unified between muslem and its want to say all human have one dna and we r one plz read quran
Hi ,
Can you Please tell me what is the 5th pic coordination ? the one you explained it as the “the familiar Mercator projection”. It might mean Something too .
Thanks ,
Following north
It’s just an illustration, so I don’t have the exact coordinates. It looks like it’s in a desert region in Saudi Arabia. The nearest object of interest I found was this: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/9234637?source=wapi&referrer=kh.google.com
What was the unit of measurement when Mecca was established and was the curvature of the Earth taken into account when it was positioned ?
Thank you for sharing this lovely article! May Jesus be with us
It’s nice to c people r having a nice convo debate unlike Facebook n stupid places like that.
Just like to say as a Muslim we believe in all the scriptures bible, thora, as long as they r the original not not edit in anyway which is impossible to get hold of. we cannot b Muslim without believing in Jesus, Moses piece be on the May god b please with them
Thank u
Although the desert of Paran, where Ishmael dwelt, lies in present day Arabia where also Mecca is, I believe the golden ratio point is at the mountain Sinai which lies a bit north of Mecca, near Mount Paran. It is there that the God of Israel appeared to the people and commanded them to build him an ark…
Finally, somebody back to Phi. How about finding it and not getting so wrapped up in the ‘ineffable’. Like (1st book NT) Matthew 16:18 for instance. Pretty much the difference between Catholics and Protestants
wouldn’t you say. And there’s the rock reverence again. Jesus~Horus, Peter~Ptah. Or start at the beginning (ing~lord), Genesis 1:16-18. No matter when it all went down you had the earth-1 then the sun and the moon to light it all up-1.618 give or take a meteorite or two. Or change out the hypo10noose if you like. ;^ )
god is indeed great
are there any other religious cities that fall within the golden mean point
People before I made my comments I have to say I respect all the religions so dont take it in disrespect way. The website has proved that the golden point is either 12 miles or 20 kilometers or 298 Kilometers away from Macca. Dear if I suppose that this website is absoloutely right. Since the Golden point is in Arab where the prophet P.B.U.H came not in Bethlehem, yeroshelum, America, British, city of David, birth place of Jesus. it was Arab and thats enough for any one that Allah has chosen the golden place for his prophet
Still missing the point I think. It’s not in Arabia because Allah willed it just for Islam, It’s in the al-Hejaz, which has a shared history with many groups long before any one started naming their kids Jesus or Muhammad (or Peter-me). What about Tawaf and Safa. Sound like any soft ‘f’ Greek letter you can think of. Besides it was built by the father of the Jews, who by the way have (had) as the main part of their ritual 18 (chaim/life) prayers with #16/18 as the one that makes the others possible. How about the distances in the stages relative to the black stone? Or the dimensions of the stone itself? Or the pages of the holy books themselves? phi, phi, phi. Rise above your socialization. You are (all of us are) between the mean and the extreme mean. And that’s where the phun is.
Hi All,
Please follow the link below
http://www.academia.edu/7736958/The_Sacred_Sanctuary_of_Makkah
for the exact connection between Holy Code of Quran (number 19) and the Golden Ratio.
Best regards,
Fayaz Tahir
Quran NEVER stated in QS 5:97 that ka’bah or mecca is the CENTRE OF EARTH. When we read the arabic words, it only stated : “qiyaaman li l-nnaasi : establishmentfor the mankind or standing for the mankind. (penegakan/pemberdirian bagi umat manusia). It relates with the origin meaning of ka’bah as ANKLES. We need ankle to stand. So, it is not correct to translate “qiyaaman li l-nnaasi” as centre of mankind or centre of EARTH. Mankind and earth are two different terminology.
To express “centre” in arabic, the appropriate words are:
– markaz مركز
– wustha وسط-
– mahuwra محور
– qalb قلب
Every moslem should verify every news concerning quran, instead of just blindly agreeing and sharing.
Salaam
may peace be upon you
The quran mentions Prophet mohammed was sent to Meccah and all around it meaning meccah is in the golden center and all of earth and mankind is around it.
Brothers lisen my words Their only God i,e in Arabic Allah
Look quran is final revelation and it speaks about past history and present and future
If you want to believe you do in quran chapter 2 verses number 225 Allah said their is no compultion in Islam if you believe , then good for you
Or else very bad because the matter with your lord Allah because he tooo your lord but how can you deny him
On that day when you find him in front of you on the day of resurrection
Then if you belive or not nothing matter
Plz plz plz do study quran
And it is also mention in bible and gospel itself that prophet Muhammad have to pass do follow him if you want the really successful living and worth of being humans or else our exsistance in here will be waste if every thing if we not comply with the purpose
Please lean and thing logically if Allah wills he may open you the way of truth and light
This is Inamul Rahim
Can someone please state where and what the gospels speak of Muhammad? These gospels quote Jesus as saying in John 8:12, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” Other verses include John 14:6-9, in which Jesus says, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. … If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. … Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.” With due respect for the Quran, Islam and all believers, our understandings will be best if specific references and verses are provided.
You hit the ‘Bulls eye’ Gary. I have been reading your versions. Please keep up with this. You have a strong faith in Jesus our Redeemer. It will be only He who will come on the last day and lead us to the Father.
Jesus said two thousand years ago
John 16:12
12) “I still have much to tell you, but you cannot yet bear to hear it.”
In other words Jesus said you are foolish at this moment can not understand if I say now, but in future some one will come and he will speak not on his own, but what God will tell him, and will remain forever.
John 16:13
13) However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come.…
We Muslims, no matter Arabs. English, Indians, Russians, Far Eastern, they understand Final Message and accepted it.
Yes, it is appropriate to quote the words of Jesus, peace be unto Him, to know God’s truth. After all, Jesus also said in John 14:6-7, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father EXCEPT THROUGH ME. If you REALLY KNOW ME, you will know my Father as well. FROM NOW ON, you do know him and have seen him.”
Regarding the Spirit of Truth, note that the word SPIRIT in John 16:13 is originally translated from the Greek word πνεῦμα/pneuma, which means Breath, Spirit or Wind. This refers not to any mortal man or prophet but to the Holy Spirit of God. This is the same Holy Spirit of God that hovered over the waters in Genesis 1:2, that came to the first believers of Jesus on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:1 (again with the same word πνεῦμα/pneuma in the original Greek translation), and that abides within the soul of believers today. THIS is the SPIRIT of Truth that speaks to us within our souls, sometimes in a quiet whisper, and sometimes in a roar.
If you continue reading in John, the very next verse you find in John 16:14 Jesus saying this: “He will bring glory to ME by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.”
Jesus is saying that this Holy Spirit will bring GLORY to HIM, not to someone else, taking HIS truth and making it known to us. Jesus is the one who was foretold in the Old Testament to be the Messiah, who claimed a heavenly preexistence, who assumed and exercised divine authority, who referred to Himself and the Son of Man and Son of God, who claimed unity with the Father and claimed to be the way, the truth, the light, the bread of life and more. (See scripture reference for this here: https://blog.tms.edu/11-reasons-affirm-deity-christ)
So what did Jesus mean when He also referred to this Spirit and said in John 3:5-8 “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” Note that the word for Spirit here is again the same Greek word πνεῦμα/pneuma meaning Breath, Spirit or Wind, not a man or prophet.
And what did Jesus mean when He said in John 3:16-18 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.”
Yes, it is appropriate to reference the words of Jesus, peace be unto Him, to know God’s truth, but to know all the truth, and not a half truth, don’t we need to know all that Jesus said?
What is Jesus really saying to you when he says, “I still have much to tell you, but you cannot yet bear to hear it.”?
Shame on you that knew this yet want all credit to yours. Give credit to all places of information it is due. How more informative and beautiful this is than some coordinates on a globe. Coordinates that are in dispute, as far what is actually there. Right? Or not? We all will really get along better if All is represented, respected, and pick your own I’m happy for ya! THANK YOU!
No credit is taken for presenting the idea that Mecca is at the golden ratio point. A reference to the originating website and its related video was given in the second sentence of the article. To help assure that no one misses it, this information has been posted to the end of the article as well. The analysis of the claim presented in this article, along with the illustrations, is entirely our original work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dYcJQX3GNw
You can watch full movie about islam and golden ratio miracles. Perfect. You must watch before die.
When getting into claims about scientific claims in any religious text I believe there tends to be a large amount of numerology (finding special relationships with numbers) and confirmation bias (believing strongly in claims that support your already held beliefs)
Lets start with Mecca having a latitude fitting with the golden ratio. As pointed out in the original post depending on your level of measurement of latitude, the exact location can be a little off and it does not fit with any conventional measurement of longitude. No matter lets just assume for the moment that it does fit exactly with the golden ratio and that shows a divine influence. Well there are many other significant and probably more fantastic numbers in ancient sites of worship.
First off if we take the Egyptian pyramids at Giza which were built several thousand years before the Koran and to this day still cause historians debate as to how people at the time could have constructed using 200 ton blocks. Leaving that aside lets look at some of the mathematics of the pyramids.
1) The golden ratio and also the number Pi are built into the pyramids on many levels https://www.goldennumber.net/phi-pi-great-pyramid-egypt/ – taking note that both the golden ratio and pi were only ‘discovered’ a couple of thousands years later by the Greeks
2) The pyramids align within 1/15th degree to true North
3) The pyramids are built to near exactly 1/3 between the Equator and the North Pole
4) The Great pyramids sit on a great circle (a circumference line that passes around the world) that also happens to pass through Easter Island, Nazca, and close to one degree to Angkor Wat, Persopolis and many other sites of great importance in the ancient world http://home.hiwaay.net/~jalison/
Now when you see all these claims about the pyramids what can you say? They are more fantastic than those that mecca sits at a location that matches the golden ratio are they not? Yet do you throw everything down and claim that the ancient egyptians must have had divine knowledge otherwise there is no way that the pyramids could be the way they are? Or is it more likely that if you use numerology and search long enough you are bound to find links between numbers and that by chance they will fit with certain numbers from nature?
Secondly there are many claims that the Koran reveals scientific discoveries that were not known at the time. To look into this further as is pointed out in comments above much of the wording is open to interpretation. Secondly is this the only example of science before its time? If we look at the ancient Greeks there are several fascinating insights;
1) Eratosthenes with no way of knowing or proving it believed the world to be round. He even conducted an experiment to measure the circumference of the earth and came very close to the actual figure
2) Democritus proposed an atomic theory of matter even with absolutely no way of being able to prove it
3) Anaximander proposed theories about the origin of mankind that are very close to our modern days views of evolution
The above are 3 small examples, there are many more from the ancient Greeks and even more from Indian and Chinese writings. The point I am making here is that making predictions about the nature of the universe at a time when it was impossible to prove, that are subsequently proved accurate is not the sole preserve of the Koran and does not indicate a divine influence. Imagine if Democritus had written that God told him the world had a atomic structure? By your logic how could we prove him wrong now?
I do not mean this post as an attack on anyone’s beliefs but if you put forward evidence under the term “science” then it must be held up against other evidence. If you have been born into a religion and its all you have ever known then I can imagine it must be difficult if people keep trying to point out inconsistencies and mistakes. But try and think why they are doing it. Perhaps coming from the outside it is easier for them not to succumb to confirmation bias and groupthink and just want you to have an open mind on what it is you believe every day.
Math co incidence does NOT imply divinity.
If so, mathematicians are saints already, and numbers should be treated as Angels.
Religious scriptures cannot directly imply divinity.
If so, everyone who read the book dont need to die/ already in heaven.
We only know who is true, when prophets from different religions appear again on earth to tell us who is better who is not. We really cannot argue base on just the book, because God did not appear to us yet and we are not prophets.
We try our best and let’s pray for each other.
So that even with other people might be wrong, we all go to heaven.
Nice to see civilized interfaith dialogue. I hope we could focus more on this specific subject.
To avoid the map relativity issue, I used a globe, strings, and very crude measurements to obtain 1.57 at Mecca.
I was wondering, is there an online 3D globe with a ruler function to make this calculation?
Google Earth at https://www.google.com/earth/ is a great, free downloadable software app that offers these capabilities.
Sir,
I think the coordinates are close enough for a beliver.
2 point comes to mind.
1.Maybe God knows better how to calculate this point?
2. Since the land is moving few inches every decade or so. Is it possible that mecca was accurate point 1450 years ago?
Your views?
where is the point on the this map?
http://www.mapresources.com/media/catalog/product/m/c/mc-asi-302268_comp150.jpg
bull18i6@gmail.com pls ask
The golden ratio points of that map fall near Ulan-Ude in Russia on the northern hemisphere and Ho Chi Minh city in South Vietnam. The two other golden ratio points fall in the Pacific ocean near Alaska and west of Alaska. As this illustrates, the golden ratios of the Earth’s latitudes cross many points on the earth, and the golden ratios of the Earth’s longitudes have no specific geographic point (like a pole) to use as the starting point.
For Gary and others:
IN MY OPINION, your reasoning doesn’t make sense.
So you are trying to say that the position of Mecca is like a “trap” for the Christians (to guide them to the wrong path)?
This discussion is in response to a video produced by a Muslim called “Holy Mysteries.” It’s purpose was to offer a variety of “proofs” that Islam is God’s true religion. It claimed that Mecca is at the golden ratio point of the Earth. The article reviews the accuracy of the claims but does not say that it’s a trap. Each of us should pray to God for discernment as to what is His desired path for us personally and for mankind. A study of the scriptures of other faiths can help anyone to have a deeper understanding of what God has revealed to mankind throughout history, and to remove some of the confusion as to His true desires for how we are to worship Him and live our lives.
The video is valid with respect to latitude. Notice that Kaaba shows a latitude of 21.422509 at the 0:18 mark of the video. The exact golden ratio, however, is at 21.246117 at the 1:07 mark of the video. This results in a difference of about 12 miles, as per the article.
The original claim for Kaaba at the golden ratio of the Earth’s longitude is based on a low resolution Mercator projection of the world, not the Prime Meridian (Greenwich) at 0 degrees. This points to the problem that while latitudes have a natural “starting” point at the poles, there is no specific starting place for longitudes. This means that there are many golden ratio longitude points on the globe depending where you choose to start.
in addition of the golden ratio between mecca and N and S pole, it is very interesting that when we measure area by north pole as center and Kabba (mecca) result is 1.618*10^14 square meter on Google earth.
Very interesting. The surface area of the Earth is approximately 5.1*10^14 square meters, so that would mean that the portion north of Mecca would be 0.3173 of the total surface area if that is the case. Can you provide some supporting calculations or references for your claim?
yes. its very simple.. it is not necessary to calculate very complex ways. By google earth and circle in ruler tools can do it.
Perhaps it is, but it would be very helpful to understand and validate it if you would provide the actual measurements and calculations involved in getting to the answer. Or just show a screenshot of it in Google Earth.
Good Article and great discussion. May God bless all of you who participated in this discussion!
You are finding it in degrees, and on maps, not the earth! Natural measurement:
distance from mecca to the north pole 0763168 km
distance from mecca to south pole 1234832km
1234832/0763168=1.618
Moreover their distances seem to reflect the one long and one short golden ratio measurement.
maps are made by humanity:but the distance of mecca to the south pole and north pole is from God the intelligent.
even according to your mapping systems, you agree that mecca is not far away from the golden ratio but it is very near,
the following proves it is a miracle:
in the quran there is only one unique verse that includes the word mecca, which is Surah Ali Imran , 96th verse:
the relation of mecca and the golden ratio is clearly told by the creator of the universe:
The total letters in this verse is 47.
when we apply the golden ratio , then it shows the word mecca:
47/1.618=29.0
From the beginning of the verse until the word Mecca there are a total of 29 letters.
If there was one extra letter or one missing letter this ratio could have been never materialized, since:
46/1.618=28.4
And 48/1.618= 29.6
Simple miracle witness:
Media’s distance to the north pole:
07631.68km
mecca’s distance to the south pole:
12348.32km
12348.32/7631.68
=1.618
Which is the golden ratio
Assalamu Alaikum. I just wish to say I took my time to read all your posts and I can say we have matured minds here. but maturity alone won’t do it, islam has a lot of signs, you just need to be wise to see them. suratul AR-Rahman talks a great deal.
I love what you said at the end. Very open minded and pluralistic.
We must also consider the plate tectonics of the earth wich describes the large-scale motion of 7 large plates and the movements of a larger number of smaller plates of the Earth’s lithosphere. I mean the original place of mecca may have changed a little through the history. In Islamic schatology is said that the Kaaba will be rebuilt accurately by the endtime savour.
Hi,
Great discussion guys.
There is one guy who mentions phi no. also describes pentagram which is associated to Pagans, Zionists and Anti Christ.
“Good vs Evill”
I wonder what is the exact opposite of Mecca ? If Mecca is the holiest site.. there must be an unholiest site ?
According to Muslims, Anti Christ exists, there is some kind of prophecy of his location as well in Islam. prolly in the east ?
I wonder whats the opposite ? and what other locations can you get out of it by fiddling with the golden ratio on the map ?
It’s really surprising.
I wouldn’t place Holiness and Truth above coordinates and construction sites.
It is extremely risky to point to The Creator when dealing with man made things – especially architecture or in the planning of cities.
Many Demonic palaces have been crafted by the genius of man.
This should be more investigated. Lets not forget that the Middle East is famous for its advanced mathematics and mathematicians that were capable of many great things since the Ancient Egypt. They already knew the circumference of Earth to a very close precision and were obsessed by the Golden Ratio. Maybe there were pre-Islamic myths about the Golden Ratio point of Earth, and this myths influenced the mythology of Islamic religion. It is hardly something made by gods, though, but still, very interesting historically.
I notice people are mentioning two different things in this blog. Can you help me understand?
So why is it from the defined north pole:
12348.32km to Kabbah and from that to Southpole (google earth) 7631.68
Gives the ratio in length 1.61803
While if you search for “Debunked: Makkah The Miraculous Golden Ratio City The Secret Of Kaaba” in youtube you will see when he uses the method of arc degree instead it is off?
Why are there two different results? I am confused to help me understand. Please.
If there is the difference between the two methods;
So what is the “actual” distance from north pole/south [defined] to Kabbah?
And is it 12348.32km/7631.68km, because I checked on google earth I find this result. Is this true? Why is it true? If not why is it false? And how do we get the real distance then?
Please answer these two specific questions people, directly. Don’t go around it.
I’m interested at present in the location of Mecca, and its relationship to PHI, as I also am a Christian, finding out about the Ark of Gabriel, (although Gabriel surely did not give the black box to Mohammed..).
Its intriguing because Putin (the predessor of the AC) and Kirill and an amazing number of Russian military ships escorted it from Mecca, and the destruction it caused a few years earlier,…… to Antartica… an easy search.
I do this because the dark side always copies the LIGHT SIDE, and the demensions of the Holy of Holies Cube and internal ratios of the all powerful ARK of the Lord, may hold a key to the ratios of power. in harnessing the Earths rotational power, spun around by the Lord at Creation.
But I have lost the geometric method of exactly creating a PHI ratio, via compass and ruler.
If you know this, do write. SEE website below, evben though surely an internet search will soon show me the method.
Anyway, there are more connections to power and beauty of the Lord it is reproductive expanding PHI ratio.
Love oin Jesus
Davidjayjordan
Divide 90° by Phi or multiply 90° by phi and the colatitude (distance from the pole) is at Emperor Qin’s tomb near Xian, China.
Ancient Monument Latitudes Evidence Accurate Astronomy
http://jqjacobs.net/geodesy/ancient_monument_latitudes.html
The Kaaba is situated at a latitude expressing the number of days per year.
The Kaaba, Makkah:
21.422501° latitude sine = 0.3652424
68.577499° colatitude cosine = 0.3652424
epoch 500 A.D. = 365.2423760 days per year
JQ Jacobs
These maps are just BS … longitudes and latitudes are just imaginary… Google the distance between Mecca to North pole and the south pole… Then divide the one by the other… And give me your answer in the comment…
Longitudes and latitudes are not “imaginary.” They’re represent the most precise measurements we have of the Earth’s surface, which is why they’re used for geo-location and navigation. The kilometers or miles measured on Google Earth are really far more imaginary, since the results presented are just calculations based on the same underlying data, and not actual physical measurements.
If I hover over Kaaba on Google Earth online, it shows a latitude of 21.42939. The precise golden ratio is 21.32438 degrees (180 / Phi – 90). The difference when applied to the polar circumference of the Earth is 98.51 km.
I also did the measure you suggested in Google Earth online, which shows:
North Pole to Kaaba – 7632.12 km
Kaaba to South Pole – 12371.80 km
North Pole to South Pole – 20,003.92
The ratio of 12371.80 to 7632.12 is 1.62102, while the golden ratio is 1.618034. Looking at the portion of North Pole to Kaaba vs. North Pole to South Pole, the ratio here is 0.3815312 while the precise golden ratio is 0.381966. This difference results in a slightly different variance of 22.77 km.
There is no doubt that Kaaba and Mecca are very close to the golden ratio point between the poles, but it is not exactly at the golden ratio point. The bigger issue with the claim relates to the longitude of Mecca being at the golden ratio point. Where on the Earth do you use as the starting point for that measurement, when there is no natural point like the poles?
(Note: Edited for clarity and to meet site standards)
No one said that Kaaba is the golden mean point of the Earth. The holy city of Mecca is! Not just the Kaaba, but the entire city is blessed, and contains many other holy sites. You showed the calculation of Kaaba, and concluded that Makkah is not the exact golden ratio point! Kaaba is inside the city which is the golden ratio point of the Earth. Your calculation showed that longitude measurement of “Kaaba” shows a ratio 0.3815312. But the variance of 22.77 km, along with the fact that Google Earth program itself may have uncertainties, still means that your “super exact” golden ratio point falls exactly within the borders of the city of Makkah, which has a surface area of about 1200 km2. When you look at the world, with the polar points, it is an undisputed fact that Makkah’s holy lands are in the exact golden ratio. Kaaba is just within it. You can try also Mount Arafat.
I urge you to watch the full documentary at https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR0gwGJTtKKTK96xJCqAZWvnJxUHL7_BkMcPsWf6HnFylT1bnAB9JpmxWYQ&v=Hf_K80w9vbU&feature=youtu.be
This documentary further shows the presence of the golden ratio in even the very foundations of Kaaba itself. Watch it, for the Lord shall be angry with the one who turns a blind eye even after seeing some of the greatest miracles. Probability calculations show us that all these facts, cannot be mere coincidences. I will also ask you to research these since you are a Christian (you can view some Muslim perspectives on Jesus (peace be on him)):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExL30-ZpBC4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aeOX8tLQKo
Lastly, thank you for popularizing this great miracle to everyone and letting people be curious over this matter!
(Note: Edited for clarity and to meet site standards)
The exact golden ratio points from the latitude of between the Earth’s poles falls exactly and precisely within the city borders of Makkah. What makes this a “miracle” is not just this measurement, however. The miracle is that the first verse in the Quran, that has the word “Makkah”, (not “Kaaba”), is exactly proportioned according to the golden mean. The word “Bakkah”, has a ratio of 1.618, when we count the letters of this verse and divide it by 1.618. (47/1.618=29; there are 29 letters from the beginning of this verse till the word Makkah). The dimensions of Kaaba also shows us golden ratio: 21.2 m length by 13.1 m width (taking Hatim region into account), 21.2/13.1= 1.618. Probability calculations tell us that all these facts cannot be just mere coincidences. Using the Google Earth program, measure the distance between the north and south poles. Then divide this with the golden mean. You will get a number around 12348 km. Then cover this distance starting from the south pole, and you will see that you are stopping exactly within the city borders of Makkah, the holy region, just as the ratio is seen with the Mecca verse. Another takeaway: the latitude coordinates of Kaaba is 21 degrees and 25 minutes. The first time the word “Kaaba” appears in the Quran is 2:125.
Distance of Makkah to the South Pole: 12348.32 km.
Distance of Makkah to the North Pole: 7631.68 km.
12348.32/7631.68= 1.6180.(verified by Google Earth).
(Note: Edited to meet site standards) Lots of important miracles cannot be ignored. I do not know how to stress enough, but if you are reading this comment, I urge you to watch the full documentary of this research, along with tons of other miracles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR0OtdNZbOoFU50hNBQGkaJ98x2Zbml5ZFyO43mP9cPb3shCrHR7gSdSthQ&v=Hf_K80w9vbU&feature=youtu.be
(Note: Edited to remove redundancy and to meet site standards)
12348.32/7631.68=1.6180. (Verified by Google Earth Ruler Feature).
Please Watch the full official documentary before judging this research!: (there are tons of new miracles)
The modern arrangement of the Quran is not in chronological order according to scholarly concenus
http://tanzil.net/docs/revelation_order
and even if Makkah does fall within the boundaries of the Golden ratio, this does not indicate that the Quran was dvinely revealed as several other prestigious ancient monuments such as the pyramids, churches and temples were mathematically constucted to allign with the celestial poles,constellations (such as Orion’s Belt), the equatorial line aswell at the equinoxes and solstices. What it does demonstrate however is that the ancient world had advanced knowledge of mathematics,astronomy, science so they decided to construct their holy sites at very specific areas.
If you’re using the North Pole ( magnetic north) as one of the measurements to get your golden mean,are you taking into account that just in last 100 years that measurement has moved 1400 miles ? Since we have no measurement of where it was when ANY ancient religious site was built( only guesses) ,plus add in plate/Teutonic shifts,we can’t have a clue if any were truly built to the Golden Mean.lol. I’m sorry,but IMO,I think ppl are trying to force facts here to fit their beliefs,whichever they may be.
Peace to all.
The shift you’re referring to is, as you note, the North MAGNETIC pole. This discussion, and all of the data being analyzed as evidence, is based on the Earth’s GEOGRAPHIC, pole, which hasn’t changed in relation to the position of Mecca, unless you want to extend the time period to include the continental drift that occurred over a period of several hundred million years. That would have significant no impact on measurements since the time Mecca came into existence.
Some kindergarten requests…
1. Open ur Google Chrome
2. Search “distance from Mecca to North pole”
3. Search “distance from Mecca to South pole”
4. Devide one value from the other…
Simple nah…
That does seem simple enough. I tried it and got these results:
The shortest distance (air line) between Mecca and North-Pole is 4,737.92 mi (7,624.94 km).
The shortest distance (air line) between Mecca and South-Pole is 7,698.90 mi (12,390.18 km).
The ratio of 12,390.18 km to 7,624.94 km is 1.62495, and shortest distance (air line) between North-Pole and South-Pole is 20,015.12 km.
The golden ratio point is thus:
20,015.12 km / 1.6180339…, or 12,370.024 km.
The difference between the location of Mecca and the golden ratio point in this approach is:
12,390.18 lm – 12,370.024 km = 20.16 km or 12.52 miles.
And this is exactly what I wrote in the second paragraph of this article: “This is a variance of less about 1/10 of a percent, about 12 miles or 20 kilometers north of the exact golden ratio latitude point.”
There is no denying that it is close. The issues are that the longitude claim for Mecca’s golden ratio position doesn’t hold up to analysis, and that if this data is to be used to support a claim that God/Allah selected this spot then one would expect it to have been done with more precision than was possible for man. As it’s said, “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”
We know that mankind at much earlier times in its history demonstrated excellent knowledge of astronomy and sacred geometry and applied this with amazing accuracy in the dimensions and positions of ancient structures. The Great Pyramid of Egypt is aligned to within 0.067 degrees of perfect cardinal alignment, and its dimensions are with 0.025% of a perfect golden Kepler triangle. The Greeks achieved similar perfection in their construction of the Parthenon. So where does the evidence then lead us as to who picked the location for Mecca and Kaaba?
We are talking about a sphere of sorts here, and it depends on where you start this guessing game reference point longitude left to right, so the crossroads could be any point, or a line at a particular latitude across the entire globe, meaning any point to the left or right of Mecca across the entire earth depending on where you decide to start.
Does a ball have a start or edge? The best we can do is say it has a center.
Further, again, it’s a sphere, not flat. Why the stereotypical image with north America on the left, what if it was shifted to the right side? The point would shift as explained above, depending on where we start. Also, if we flip this exactly upside down the points would be in the southern hemisphere.
Read the Sacred Sanctuary of Makkah by Fayaz Tahir
Hello, Jerusalem is a holy city to the Big Three. Does Jerusalem fall under the crosshairs of the Golden Ratio?
Mecca is not divinely situated, and not on a golden ratio design, Jerusalem is, or more precisely the Temple Mount in Jerusalem is, as it was and will be the location of the Lords Temple in the near future.
Sacred Temples have to be aligned and in harmony with sacred geometry which is the Lords mathematics and design, in ratios and proportions. They are suppose to be according to the stars, Moon, Sun and Earth; Sounds a little esoteric or vague but it isn’t. Its actually ‘down to Earth’ and understandable.
https://www.davidjayjordan.com/Lordstemplearchitectureandsacredsex.html
Temples have to be aligned to the EAST, towards the rising SUN / SON… They have to be aligned to the Equator, to be potent… they are to show the power or potency of the Lord in going from one to many.
The ONE is the cube or Holy of Holies of His Presence, to the Holy Place, the double CUBE and outward…
Power is reproduction, replication, magnification…. as in the golden section of five, mulitplying each new generation or population by 1.618.
The focal point or boundary or center was the Great Pyramid of Enoch at Giza…its a PHI pyramid, and its ratio is of course…1.618 base to slant, with a square root of phi height.
Its ascending passageway is at the Christos Angle, because of course, CHRISTOS is the Creator…. and of utmost importance… the angle is 26.3 degrees. This also being the angle of a sunrays through the holy place temple double cube into the back wall or viel of the HOLY OF HOLIES. Its geometry, sacred geometry.
All distances, speeds and times of all heaven;ly bodies have been designed together at once. Nothing on Earth is by accident. Geography and placement pof cities etc… have all been previously designed even though man thinks he decided where to put them..
The Christos Angle goes from Giza to Jerusalem making a direct relationship with the true Temple on the Temple Mount, same as the RAMP of the Lord within the Temple.. 26.3 degrees…all showing a synch with the golden ratio…… the design of life and reproduction, and multiplication of a new generation
I cant find the Great DESIGN CIRCLE web site right now, but can post it later as it also shows that Jerusalem was on the original EQUATOR of the Earth before the shift, and answers more questions, concerning design, the new EQUATOR and GIZA and more.
Mecca’s black cube is interesting but not on the golden ratio or sacred site IMO… Think Jerusalem rather than Mecca
In my opinion it is extremely important, to absolutely prove by design, angles and math that the GREAT DESIGNER or ARCHITECT, known also as the Lord of Lords placed Jerusalem as the center focal point of history, future prophecy, and placement of HIS TEMPLE. Lets call it the 4th Temple, as the 3rd one is soon to be built after the Covenant of Daniel.
OK… starting with the PHI PYRAMID of Enoch, its easy to discern that the time prophecy of the Earth written in stone, along the ascending and descending passageways dictates times and events……. and is at exactly an angle of 26.3 degrees. This angle is called the Christos ANGLE.
Like the passageways to the stars in the body of the Great Pyramid,, the alignment it is exact and if you go at a 26.3 angle north and eastward, it goes through an important city called Jerusalem. The King of Kings was born just outside in Bethlehem. Again remember nothing is by chance but always by design, including the design of the Earth, land masses and locations of cities, etc… the WILL of God not the will or choice of man.
But as with the square and the compass, the distance along the angle has to form a cross….in this case….it has to have the exact location on this line where the SUN will rose directly in the EAST at SEPTEMBER 21, as that is the day of the Fall Equinox. That being the start of Rosh Hashannah, in some years and the night/day when their times are EQUAL. (SEE Genesis 1)
For as mentioned, all temples of significance have to face exactly EAST, as the SUN/Son rising on the horizon, is necessary for reproducing the first creative process.
So I just googled the azimuth table for Jerusalem and found FIGURE 5 , at http://www.industrial-electronics.com/engineering-industrial/mech-elec_6.html
And there it shows that the Sun rises exactly in the East on the Fall Equinox in Jerusalem. Further North, along the Christos Angle projection from Enochs Phi Prophetic Pyramid, this exactness would not be possible… Only possible, at Jerusalem, the exact spot for the Lords Temple, not by chance but by design from Creation.
Amazing confirmation in my opinion
IHS
David
PS) I also noticed that the angle from the center of the Earth, also being Jerusalem’s latitude is 31.60 degrees, if you add the Kings Chamber slant of 6.5 degrees, it adds up to 38.18 degrees. And if you have been studying your phi ratios, you realize that 38.2 is the complimentary angle of 61.8. This being a golden ratio confirmation as well, as the slant of 6.5 degrees is important in forming the galactic cross as discussed by Dan Brown and others. That slant is the offset angle of the Kings Chamber (meaning the King of Kings Chamber) with the universes galaxies and not just the eliptical which deals with just our solar systems planets and our moon.
Worth a future post if allowed…
IHS
David
Good topic, Gary
In my opinion it is extremely important, to absolutely prove by design, angles and math that the GREAT DESIGNER or ARCHITECT, known also as the Lord of Lords placed Jerusalem as the center focal point of history, future prophecy, and placement of HIS TEMPLE. Lets call it the 4th Temple, as the 3rd one is soon to be built after the Covenant of Daniel.
OK… starting with the PHI PYRAMID of Enoch, its easy to discern that the time prophecy of the Earth written in stone, along the ascending and descending passageways dictates times and events……. and is at exactly an angle of 26.3 degrees. This angle is called the Christos ANGLE.
Like the passageways to the stars in the body of the Great Pyramid,, the alignment it is exact and if you go at a 26.3 angle north and eastward, it goes through an important city called Jerusalem. The King of Kings was born just outside in Bethlehem. Again remember nothing is by chance but always by design, including the design of the Earth, land masses and locations of cities, etc… the WILL of God not the will or choice of man.
But as with the square and the compass, the distance along the angle has to form a cross….in this case….it has to have the exact location on this line where the SUN will rose directly in the EAST at SEPTEMBER 21, as that is the day of the Fall Equinox. That being the start of Rosh Hashannah, in some years and the night/day when their times are EQUAL. (SEE Genesis 1)
For as mentioned, all temples of significance have to face exactly EAST, as the SUN/Son rising on the horizon, is necessary for reproducing the first creative process.
So I just googled the azimuth table for Jerusalem and found FIGURE 5 , at http://www.industrial-electronics.com/engineering-industrial/mech-elec_6.html
And there it shows that the Sun rises exactly in the East on the Fall Equinox in Jerusalem. Further North, along the Christos Angle projection from Enochs Phi Prophetic Pyramid, this exactness would not be possible… Only possible, at Jerusalem, the exact spot for the Lords Temple, not by chance but by design from Creation.
Amazing confirmation in my opinion
IHS
David
PS) I also noticed that the angle from the center of the Earth, also being Jerusalem’s latitude is 31.60 degrees, if you add the Kings Chamber slant of 6.5 degrees, it adds up to 38.18 degrees. And if you have been studying your phi ratios, you realize that 38.2 is the complimentary angle of 61.8. This being a golden ratio confirmation as well, as the slant of 6.5 degrees is important in forming the galactic cross as discussed by Dan Brown and others. That slant is the offset angle of the Kings Chamber (meaning the King of Kings Chamber) with the universes galaxies and not just the eliptical which deals with just our solar systems planets and our moon.
Worth a future post if allowed…
IHS
David
I think it odd that you go out of your way to ensure your bias view that the Islam can’t be the final testament of the Abrahamic religion and not just be an objective person and consider all the facts.
One thing you seem to have not considered is Tectonic Plates and how they have moved over 1400 years.
When you have a bias mind it obstructs your intellect from seeing anything that might make you rethink your views and consequently your beliefs. This is 2 things at work Pride, and Sloth.
There are many factors you haven’t given a thought to. I could make a big list but here’s a few more. The effect of the moon on the shape of the earth over time and comets and meteors that could have small but contributing factors to where a point of earth is at a given time period, also Nuclear weapon testing moves the earth slightly.
If you give up your objectiveness then you have begun deluding your works whatever they may be and the results reach farther than you precive. To be objective is to gain truth, knowledge, and a true understanding of ones environment.
The purpose of this article is not to evaluate the truth of Islam. It’s purpose is to evaluate the singular claim that Mecca is at the golden ratio point of the Earth. As stated in the article, this claim was made using an overlay of my PhiMatrix software on a single, low resolution Mercator projection of the Earth. There are hundreds of variations of Mercator projections. The first one I found with a Google search took me to Wikipedia and here the golden ratio appears to be in Turkey:
This remarkable claim thus deserved an objective evaluation that considered all the facts, and that is what I provided in the article. Your suggestion that a shift in Tectonic plates over 1400 years explains the difference is not valid. With a little work it can easily be learned that the tectonic plates of this region only move by 20 millimeters per year, which is only 28 meters over 1,400 years:
https://www.weather.gov/jetstream/plates_max (Click on Plate Motion and Arabian Plate on legend to map)
You are very right though that “a biased mind obstructs your intellect from seeing anything that might make you rethink your views and consequently your beliefs”, and also that “To be objective is to gain truth, knowledge, and a true understanding of ones environment.” In the end, the location of Mecca doesn’t prove the existence nor truth of our God. His truth is in His word, as revealed through His Messengers. The Quran recognizes the uniqueness of Jesus, peace be unto Him, but doesn’t reveal all that Jesus said. Given what you said about bias, objectivity, knowledge and truth, it seems that you may be someone who wants to know all that Jesus said. If so, it can be found in the Bible in the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, the books of Acts and Revelation. May we all be blessed with a heart to seek God’s wisdom and truth, and may He give us all the discernment to know it in our hearts and minds when it is given to us.
what do you think of this answer to this question by mellamokb. He says that many cities can fall under the golden ratio point if we allow the error of 22 km.
https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/6708/is-mecca-at-a-special-place-on-the-earths-surface-dictated-by-the-golden-mean
The golden ratio point between the north and south poles creates two circles, one at latitude 21.246 degrees north and one at latitude 21.246 degrees south. These two latitude lines then circle the globe and intersect with many other cities and landmarks. Honolulu is at 21.3156 degrees north, which puts it just north of the golden ratio latitude.
Remember Mercator projections DO NOT take into account the Earths – Obliquity and Isolation !
https://www.everythingselectric.com/wp-content/uploads/2018-108.jpg
You all forgetting that simple fact, you’re all pointing to magnetic north NOT celestial north, the planet Earth is actually tilted by 23.5 degrees, So in the illustration at the top you have to move the 0-180 line by 23.5 degrees.
That gives you 21.246 +23.5 degrees = 44.76 degrees. Call it 45 degrees, and at 45 degrees you get …
The midday Sun stands 21.6° above the southern horizon at the December solstice, and exactly 45.0° at either equinox. which are phi and 2 phi respectively.
And the 45 parallel is halfway point between the equator and the North Pole too. A nice clean sectioning.
Seems to me that you all need to re-adjust your calculations – to include Obliquity and Isolation.
Then you get the answer he’s living it up in the south of France, or 45s in the middle of the south atlantic ocean, and if i were he, that’s where I’d be far far away from you all.
Because Star traveler, if you were looking for the planet in the universe ie a star chart, you’d use as above the celestial north not magnetic north. (as that’s only local to the planet nor the Universe!! Duh!)
God deals in maths – not what you believe. He’d mark you down – forgot precession 4/10 Must try harder.
Some good points, but the rotation of the Earth does produce a natural axis from which true north and south can be measured, and that is what is being used here as the reference point. It doesn’t matter that the axis is tilted, or that it wobbles in precession. No one is suggested that the magnetic poles be used.
I became muslim after reading the Quran, it is The Word of God just like the other books that are compiled in the Bible except it is unadulterated. Information like the Golden Ratio of The World solidifies that Muhammed is God’s last and final Prophet/Paraclete foretold to come by Jesus. Islam has brought me closer to God and given me a clear understanding of who God is. GOD is One, GOD is the Eternal Refuge, He begets not, nor is He begotten, and there is no one equivalent to GOD
It’s wonderful that you have come to faith in God and are seeking His truth. In that quest, I would offer this to you. If you think the Quran is “unadulterated, then see its history of change and canonization at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Quran. If you think the Bible is “adulterated,” then study the recent discoveries of the Dead Sea Scrolls, archeological finds and other research which show it to be quite consistent and unchanged. If you hold the Bible as truth in quoting Jesus as proof for Islam, it is important to not adulterate His words in the process. Jesus never foretold of a final Prophet to come. The word paraklētos means advocate, counselor or comforter. The words of Jesus in the gospels use the word prophētēs to reference prophets. The word paraklētos can be best understood in the context of the entire Gospels. In all four instances of its use, Jesus refers to the Advocate and the Spirit (pneuma) together, as one in the same (John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26 and 16:13). He uses the same word Spirit when saying you must be born again of the Spirit (John 3:3-8). This is the Spirit that those who believe in him received after his death (John 7:39). He bestowed this Holy Spirit upon His disciples then (John 20:22, Acts 1:5, Acts 2:4), and has ever since. It is this Holy Spirit that abides within the willing human soul that is being described here. This Spirit convicts us of our sin (John 16:8) and speaks the truth of God to us among our innermost thoughts (John 16:13). God is One, but He can manifest and reveal Himself to His Creation however He so choses.
Thank you Gary. Brilliant article and I love your religious respect. I pray that God guides you to Islam.
Thank you Rashaad. And I pray that God guides you to know Christ, and to experience His Spirit abiding within you. Beyond that, let us both pray that God gives us all the wisdom and heart to know and embrace His truth and love. Christians should read the Quran, as I have. Muslims should read at least the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, if not the entire Bible. That will give us all deeper understanding and appreciation of one another other, and of God.
Distance from the north to the south pole (20,000km) divided by the distance of latitude golden ratio to Kaaba (22.7km) is roughly 0.001 or 0.1 percent. Rationally 0.1% falls within the margin of error.
Also, take into consideration that the Arabian tectonic plate is currently moving at roughly 16mm/year northward. In the future, it might be faster or slower. If I calculate for 22.7 km distance of Kaaba from the latitude golden point, it will take roughly 1.4 million years based on 16mm/year.
In the context of latitude, 1° of latitude represents a measurement of distance on the Earth’s surface. The distance between each degree of latitude is approximately 111 kilometers or 69 miles.
To calculate the distance between 1°N and 1°S, we need to determine the total distance covered by moving from the North Pole (90°N) to the South Pole (90°S), passing through 1° of latitude.
Since there are 180° of latitude between the North Pole and the South Pole, and each degree of latitude covers approximately 111 kilometers or 69 miles, we can calculate the distance between 1°N and 1°S as follows:
Distance in kilometers: 180° x 111 km = 19,980 km
Distance in miles: 180° x 69 miles = 12,420 miles
Therefore, the approximate distance between 1°N and 1°S is 19,980 kilometers (or 12,420 miles).
Mekka is ~400km west (~5h drive in the desert) of the golden mean section on earth (42.492236E, 21.246118N).
By the way: the coordinate system as we use it today (longitude and latitude) was invented 1884 (~1200 years after the Q’ran was written) and is totally arbitrary. Therefore, I don’t think Mekka has something to do with the golden mean.
If we apply the gold mean calculations to the southern hemisphere (42.492236W, 21.246118S) we land very close to Rio de Janeiro (290km to the north of Rio). Purely from the golden mean point of view, Rio is as “divine” as Mekka is.
Your Kaaba and hateem calculations are wrong, firstly, adding together the Kaaba (12.86) and hateem (8.46 source: saudipedia) gives you 21.32, not 21.2, the height (not width as you said) of the kabbah is 13.1 the which when divided, gets you 1.627, I calculated the width as well just to be sure and got 12.36. so I’m skeptical of your points.